kissa 5/10 20:52 Welcome to Conversations at Midnight with Sero. Tonight, we'll be talking about VETTING. So, what is Sero talking about? What is "vetting" in BDSM? Join us to find out!

kissa 5/10 20:54 A vet is someone who is qualified to treat sick or injured animals. A vet is someone who has served in the armed forces of their country, especially during a war. To vet someone is to investigate fully before being given a particular job, role, or position, especially one that involves military or political secrets. So, what is Sero talking about? What is "vetting" in BDSM?

HellPrincess 5/10 21:09 All of us. People gotta remember that.

Sero 5/10 21:09 HellPrincess mutual understanding and diversity are key sources of strength. You may have a point.

HellPrincess 5/10 21:10 Sero the more diverse our pool, the more angle we can consider things from

Sero 5/10 21:11 HellPrincess I like coming at things from different angles. And yeah, the innuendo is just as valid.

Sero 5/10 21:14 Tonight, we're going to talk about vetting (shocker, I know). We're going to be talking about what it is, what it isn't, how it can be used, why it can be used, and its limitations of it.

Sero 5/10 21:16 This will be an open discussion, so participation is highly encouraged. Please follow along with the topic, however. Rabbit holes in these types of discussions are dangerous on time, and it's already late for some. Also, please remember that it's okay to disagree, that's why we discuss.

Sero 5/10 21:16 So, to begin: what is VETTING?

annabelladonna 5/10 21:17 is vetting making sure the person ur trusting is going to respect u?

SapphireVenom 5/10 21:18 making sure said person is legitimate?

HellPrincess 5/10 21:18 I see it as the conscious process by which we conduct a thorough study of the partner in question-

annabelladonna 5/10 21:18 HellPrincess so eloquently put

Sero 5/10 21:19 Pretty much right on the money from everyone, even if said slightly differently. In simplest terms, vetting is any process to make sure someone is trustworthy.

Sero 5/10 21:19 I should have to ask why trust is important in D/s, and am going to assume that we're all on the same page with it, right?

Sero 5/10 21:20 *I shouldn't have to

SirFrost 5/10 21:20 Yus!

HellPrincess 5/10 21:20 Yes! But. What is trust?

Subgal27 5/10 21:20 I think it also Gives you enough time to get through the honeymoon phase to see how your personalities truly mix and mingle

Sero 5/10 21:20 HellPrincess a dangerous rabbit hole, lol

annabelladonna 5/10 21:21 Subgal27 oof how long is the honeymoon phase. how long should we vet

SapphireVenom 5/10 21:21 do y'all start with trust or do they build it up over time?

Sero 5/10 21:21 annabelladonna well, slow down

SirFrost 5/10 21:21 Trust is the ability to be honest.. open.. and letting your guard down with a person who returns it fully.

Subgal27 5/10 21:22 annabelladonna until the googlie eye passes

Sero 5/10 21:22 SapphireVenom you guys are just stepping on that gas, lol. We got stops to make. Save that question for soon. You'll know when.

Galen 5/10 21:22 annabelladonna and then some

Sero 5/10 21:22 Anyone have some examples of vetting, either in or out of a D/s setting?

annabelladonna 5/10 21:23 meeting for coffee before setting up a date is vetting

Sweet Domme 5/10 21:23 I tend to ask a submissive i'm interested in, about their real life experience of bdsm, if they have any, and to what extent they have participated in bdsm in real life

Subgal27 5/10 21:23 A new hire at a job site

kissa 5/10 21:23 Subgal27 awesome

Sero 5/10 21:23 All great examples

kissa 5/10 21:24 annabelladonna sure

HellPrincess 5/10 21:24 Sero Oh goodness. I feel like it has been a long time since I went through vetting even a friend- but I stet with basic character traits

kissa 5/10 21:24 Even just seeing if someone is going to be a good scene partner

SapphireVenom 5/10 21:24 Sero pretty sure I'm not good at this which is why I'm here..

HellPrincess 5/10 21:25 Not even BDSM-related questions. Because I need to see a person, not just a checklist

SirFrost 5/10 21:25 Ahhh scene partners are hard to come by.

Sero 5/10 21:25 SapphireVenom no shame in that. It's honestly not an easy skill.

HellPrincess 5/10 21:25 SapphireVenom takes experience.

Sero 5/10 21:25 HellPrincess that can be a form of vetting, in itself.

Sweet Domme 5/10 21:26 I also ask what they do for a living, or if the appropriate age, what they are studying in college, etc, to get a feel for what type of intellect they have

Sero 5/10 21:26 So, within a D/s setting (and life in general), vetting can take numerous forms and serve numerous purposes, as the examples have been given.

Sero 5/10 21:28 There is what I would call "casual vetting". This would include things like seeing how well you might mesh with a scene partner, checking to see if interests align for a deeper conversation, or checking to see if someone's on the up and up with a story they fed you.

SirFrost 5/10 21:29 *nods nods* I miss deep conversations. Very important in any relationship.

Sero 5/10 21:29 These are all relatively low-risk situations. Even if you don't properly vet, there's not that much that can go wrong (again, relatively).

Sero 5/10 21:30 What another type of vetting, anyone?

kissa 5/10 21:30 community or organizational vetting

Sero 5/10 21:30 kissa can you expand on that, please?

kissa 5/10 21:32 Sero Sir, certainly. So, some BDSM clubs (groups and buildings) are private and the group or homeowners want to make sure that they aren't stuck with a jerkface or that a jerkface knows their address.

SirFrost 5/10 21:33 Sometimes Munches help with that

HellPrincess 5/10 21:33 Social. Watching them interact with others. How do they manage conflict? What have they been like to others?

kissa 5/10 21:33 Like a frat/sorority, they want to know who is joining the group

Sero 5/10 21:33 Right, so this would be a great example of more serious vetting. Anyone else have examples of more serious vetting?

HellPrincess 5/10 21:33 kissa that kind of support omg

kissa 5/10 21:34 RisingWind, welcome, we're talking Vetting

HellPrincess 5/10 21:34 Sero Whether someone knows cpr, basic first aid. Basic anatomy.

kissa 5/10 21:34 relationship vetting - being "under consideration"

SirFrost 5/10 21:35 *knows all of those things!*

Sero 5/10 21:35 HellPrincess I know that the leg bone connects to the thigh bone.

HellPrincess 5/10 21:35 How someone handles themselves under pressure. Can they communicate?

SirFrost 5/10 21:35 Sero did you know babies come from storks?

Sero 5/10 21:36 These are some good examples. Why is serious vetting necessary at times?

kissa 5/10 21:36 um, so you don't end up dead in a ditch

HellPrincess 5/10 21:36 Sero because safety concerns deem it necessary

Sero 5/10 21:37 Safety. In life, an alarming number of people would just as soon harm you in some way or another, and not always physically.

SirFrost 5/10 21:37 Because horrible things happen to people. Bdsm gone wrong. Like leaving a partner in a hotel room to go get ice then die and she's discovered a day later by the maid lady

kissa 5/10 21:38 Some people don't play within limits or safe calls or safewords but if they are around a community for long enough, someone is going to know

Sero 5/10 21:39 There are some serious horror stories out there. This is why vetting can be so important. But even without real life meet-ups, an online relationship can absolutely be devastating when abusive.

kissa 5/10 21:40 Summers Kiss, welcome!

Summers Kiss 5/10 21:40 kissa hi hello, thank you! was just reading a bit

HellPrincess 5/10 21:40 Lots of experienced abusers and lots of fresh minds

Sero 5/10 21:40 If it's for safety, who does vetting protect?

SapphireVenom 5/10 21:40 Summers Kiss hi pretty lady *pats spot next to me*

SirFrost 5/10 21:41 Both parties

Summers Kiss 5/10 21:41 SapphireVenom thank you

Sero 5/10 21:41 SirFrost thank you

SirFrost 5/10 21:41 Sero you're welcome

Sero 5/10 21:43 While certainly some more common, abusers come from all shapes, sizes and genders. Anyone can be the victim of abuse, from the strongest Dominant to the lowest slave.

Sero 5/10 21:43 This is vitally important for all to remember at all times.

Sero 5/10 21:44 Does anyone have anything to add on safety?

SirFrost 5/10 21:44 Wear a gu.. rubber. Jk just be aware

HellPrincess 5/10 21:45 Sero yeah. Be careful what personal information you disclose

SirFrost 5/10 21:45 Stalkers do exist

Sero 5/10 21:45 HellPrincess very foundational, yet easily forgotten advice, thank you.

HellPrincess 5/10 21:45 That might seem logical but- you know?

kissa 5/10 21:45 Sero take the time, take the hit at being uncomfortable when it comes to asking to talk to previous partners and folks in the community.

kissa 5/10 21:46 You're not being a gossip. you're asking for information to protect yourself

SirFrost 5/10 21:46 HellPrincess a lot of oblivious people nowadays

Summers Kiss 5/10 21:46 Step out of the emotional high you may feel with a new partner time to time and assess for red flags, it's easy to overlook when people feel giddy with a new relationship or worry about questioning that person initially

Sero 5/10 21:47 kissa previous partners can be a great place to start, but take what they say with a grain of salt. Sometimes hurt can lead to serious misunderstandings and stretching of the truth, in mild terms.

HellPrincess 5/10 21:48 I want to know who their friends are

kissa 5/10 21:48 HellPrincess male and female

Sero 5/10 21:48 I'm going to ask Summers Kiss to come up and share her story with us, to give us a perspective that I cannot offer. Well, two, honestly.

kissa 5/10 21:49 Sero of course, Sir, and in the New Relationship Energy place, anger at one's twue lub (it's fine to laugh at me, i know i just did it) is hard to understand or believe someone's anger

HellPrincess 5/10 21:49 kissa oh yeah. Like get familiar

Summers Kiss 5/10 21:50 kissa yessss

Summers Kiss 5/10 21:50 Sero thank you, sure i can share what i can about my vetting experience.

kissa 5/10 21:50 take your time, kids, get to know people

Summers Kiss 5/10 21:51 So as most of you already know, i was vetting with Jof for awhile. and it really taught me a lot about patience and the experience overall.

Summers Kiss 5/10 21:52 W/we had vetted for i think almost 5-6 months and in that time, it was a lot of questions and a lot of discussing scenarios.

Summers Kiss 5/10 21:53 We didn't even scene for the first several months because so much was a discussion about each of U/us were, our values, preferences, our own personal things W/we were working towards, our faults, etc. This really gave me an understanding of both the wonderful things about the person but also the things i had to accept that made me uncomfortable and to talk about it.

Summers Kiss 5/10 21:54 Jof was the first Dominant i had vetted for, first individual i ever dated that was poly, and so journaling was the biggest thing that helped me day-to-day. From there, He had access and was able to answer questions that arose.

Summers Kiss 5/10 21:55 It was critical that i wrote down any questions i had throughout and He would answer, and so creating a space for me to have that was really helpful, honestly the most helpful i think throughout the experience. Because i was new, it was really important to understand what HE meant by words/experiences

Summers Kiss 5/10 21:56 I heard a lot already but how He understood concepts i had to contextually analyze and understand because it didn't matter what others told me in the past if that makes sense

kissa 5/10 21:56 ..

Summers Kiss 5/10 21:57 So it was like being brand new to BDSM with curiosity explored. It was a lot of challenging assumptions and welcoming space for that.

Summers Kiss 5/10 21:57 I could go on forever but that is a gist unless anyone has questions, thank you (oh and yes, slowly developing rules for safety was critical)

Sero 5/10 21:58 Summers Kiss thank you.

Sero 5/10 21:58 We'll have a few minutes for questions in just a moment.

Summers Kiss 5/10 21:58 Sero you are welcome

Sero 5/10 21:59 Trust is built through vetting, but vetting is not perfect. It cannot be. At the end of the day, people are only going to show you what they want you to see.

Sero 5/10 21:59 At the risk of scaring anyone off from interacting with me, I will use myself as an example.

Sero 5/10 22:00 I try to be polite in chat, even nice, because this world is crappy enough, and if I can say hello and show them a welcome with minimal effort and a chance to make them feel just a little better, why wouldn't I?

Sero 5/10 22:01 But as nice as I try to be, and as genuine as I try to be, the vast majority of you or anyone here will never see the real me.

Sero 5/10 22:01 And I don't mean my face.

Sero 5/10 22:02 I only show what I want to show. I don't allow my own flaws or shortcomings to show (as much as can be avoided, at least). I don't share my innermost thoughts, desires, kinks, darknesses, shames, or weaknesses.

Sero 5/10 22:02 What I am is the airbrushed image of myself.

Sero 5/10 22:03 This is what makes vetting important. While I have nothing nefarious to hide, you do not know that.

Sero 5/10 22:04 Vetting takes time, patience, and effort. It takes being uncomfortable, talking to your own friends, and their friends, checking trusted resources.

HellPrincess 5/10 22:05 Sero *nods*

Sero 5/10 22:05 Does anyone have anything to add, else we will open up the floor to questions or (if anyone has) personal vetting experiences to share?

Summers Kiss 5/10 22:05 Yes, agreed. Before a met Jof, i even vetted His friends to come capacity, the more people vouched for Him, the easier it was. Even speaking to His current partners helped, especially during one-on-one time with some of them.

HellPrincess 5/10 22:05 Time. Effort.

Summers Kiss 5/10 22:06 by met i mean in-person. Also for me, having that person describe scenarios and watching them interact with others and in anger really helps me understand behavior. Reading between the lines

Summers Kiss 5/10 22:06 Observing behavior for consistency really does help

kissa 5/10 22:06 Sero Sir, what are some good vetting questions? I noticed that Sweet Domme started talking about them a little earlier.

HellPrincess 5/10 22:07 Sero dealing with a sadist... you have to be that much more aware of their state of mind. How do they define their sadism- what does it mean to them, what kind of practices have they been involved with.

Summers Kiss 5/10 22:07 How do they handle frustration and when you uphold your boundaries...

Summers Kiss 5/10 22:07 HellPrincess yesss

Sero 5/10 22:07 HellPrincess very true

kissa 5/10 22:08 Welcome to Conversations at Midnight with Sero. Tonight, we'll be talking about VETTING.

Sero 5/10 22:08 One thing that was just reminded me with that is that there is no one-size-fits-all with vetting. Every situation takes a different approach. What if they're a Sadist, what if they're brand new and don't have friends here? The basic principles remain the same.

HellPrincess 5/10 22:08 And what darn traits do they embody? How are they expressed? What is their relationship to substances, etc. God all the things people should know before you think of getting serious....

Sero 5/10 22:08 I always recommend having a mentor-like person you can trust to help with a process like this.

Sero 5/10 22:09 If you don't have a mentor figure, a close friend can help keep a watch for red flags.

Sero 5/10 22:09 Having an outside view in can be extremely helpful.

Sweet Domme 5/10 22:10 Also, what is their mental state, are they bipolar, or have anxiety or depression or some other mental state?

Sweet Domme 5/10 22:10 IF they do have a mental issue, are they stable on medications for it, or are they stubbornly unmedicated by choice?

Sero 5/10 22:10 These are all great things to consider

Summers Kiss 5/10 22:11 I think a level of introspection for ourselves before getting into any sort of vetting experience, especially what we are like during NRE is so important. I feel people ignore so much when they are in that high. Creating a safe space for yourself to reflect and not get sucked into the rush is soooo important

kissa 5/10 22:11 Health conditions - and do you know how to deal with them in an emergency, medications they are on for any reason

Summers Kiss 5/10 22:12 asking yourself "why do i want to be in this potential dynamic" and being honest with yourself about the answers

Summers Kiss 5/10 22:12 kissa Sweet Domme great points

HellPrincess 5/10 22:12 Summers Kiss oh god. This is so big

Summers Kiss 5/10 22:13 i think the biggest thing that led to our eventual ending of the vetting was for me to ask "am i in an emotional place for a dynamic/vetting, etc." and ultimately i was not

kissa 5/10 22:13 i do think journaling the answers to your vetting questions and your honest responses to them is important because when the frenzies wear off, you're going to be confused why this person is acting like this.

Summers Kiss 5/10 22:13 i was so scared to lose what W/we had but i was not being honest about where i was

Summers Kiss 5/10 22:13 kissa YES

HellPrincess 5/10 22:14 I love to vet as a friend first and foremost

HellPrincess 5/10 22:15 I feel that it helps me assess them outside of kink

Summers Kiss 5/10 22:15 i think for me, my sense of control was shaken, i could not give what i didn't have, and any attempt to have control, i held onto firmly. I needed healing and establish my sense of control

Summers Kiss 5/10 22:15 HellPrincess oooh yes

Sero 5/10 22:15 Thank you all for coming, once again. It's been a pleasure. Next week will be at 10p(?) est time. We're gonna be a bit earlier to make sure more can make it.

Sweet Domme 5/10 22:15 When meeting someone new, I try and develop a friendship first through common interests, open communication and trust, like HellPrincess said, vetting through friendship. I believe all good romantic relationships start out as good friendships

Sero 5/10 22:15 Though, feel free to keep discussing

Summers Kiss 5/10 22:15 Sweet Domme yes <3

HellPrincess 5/10 22:16 Let it take time....

HellPrincess 5/10 22:16 Take your time. Your safety and being should never be sacrificed to your hormones

Summers Kiss 5/10 22:16 kissa

kissa 5/10 22:16 Sweet Domme i think so, too

Sero 5/10 22:16 Summers Kiss you? On an odd sleeping schedule? Whaaaat?

Summers Kiss 5/10 22:16 HellPrincess yessss

kissa 5/10 22:17 HellPrincess absolutely

Summers Kiss 5/10 22:17 Sero LOL i know i know

SapphireVenom 5/10 22:17 Sero thank you for hosting this, gained some great information

SapphireVenom 5/10 22:17 Summers Kiss Thank you for sharing, you're a badass as always

Summers Kiss 5/10 22:17 SapphireVenom thank you


Sweet Domme 5/10 22:17 Sero thanks for this, i learned some new and interesting things about vetting, always good to learn more

snowdrop 5/10 22:31 Ooh wonderful, I do have a lil comment. I think it's important not to close yourself off during the vetting process to rely solely on each other. Have friends you can discuss things with.