Song Yung April 15, 2020 at 5:05 PM
TOPIC HAS BEGUN Please welcome both kissa and little dragon

kissa April 15, 2020 at 5:05 PM
hi all!

kissa April 15, 2020 at 5:05 PM
Tonight, we're talking FLAGGING

little dragon April 15, 2020 at 5:05 PM
Hello E/everyone

kissa April 15, 2020 at 5:05 PM


Song Yung April 15, 2020 at 5:05 PM
here Flagging: The Art of signals during a group dungeon or play party. Topic at the Garden shortly by kissa and little dragon. Please join us. We ask you suspend protocols and greetings during active topic. If you wish to say hello or ask to enter, please do so in a direct PM with whom you have permission. Thank you

kissa April 15, 2020 at 5:06 PM
like, don't even try to interpret that guy's butt yet. Trust, me, it totally can be done
[5:07 PM]
First of all, I'll direct you to the #events page, to see the pic for today's chat. At the end, we'll talk about why it amuses the hell out of me.

TLSCP April 15, 2020 at 5:07 PM
how is the purple and yellow together?

kissa April 15, 2020 at 5:07 PM
TLSCP, terrible taste

little dragon April 15, 2020 at 5:08 PM
What is Flagging?

TLSCP April 15, 2020 at 5:09 PM
flagging is the practice of hanging a colored scarf or hankerchief from a back pocket to indicate types of play one is into

kissa April 15, 2020 at 5:09 PM
Before we begin, I will state that this presentation is cobbled together from all across the internets. We will cite at the end.
[5:09 PM]
awesome!

TLSCP April 15, 2020 at 5:09 PM
types of scarf colors of scarf and placement all come into play

kissa April 15, 2020 at 5:09 PM
she's got it!

little dragon April 15, 2020 at 5:10 PM
Put simply, flagging is a semiotic system of sexual or preferential advertising. That is, an unspoken way of communicating basic information, at distance. While flagging can be done in numerous ways, the simple left/right system has evolved since the mid-1800's to include colored bandanas (also called kerchiefs or hankies ), wrist cuffs, nail polish, ribbons, and even jewelry.

TLSCP April 15, 2020 at 5:11 PM
the whole single earring thing in the late 80s

kissa April 15, 2020 at 5:11 PM
yep - and the "flower code" of Victorian England

little dragon April 15, 2020 at 5:12 PM
Does anyone here flag?

cimo (MHK) April 15, 2020 at 5:12 PM
Not very well lol
[5:12 PM]
Long time ago

andone April 15, 2020 at 5:13 PM
It's new to me so I'm learning from the discussion

Sleepmonger April 15, 2020 at 5:13 PM
It's not something I've seen done around here in the past while so no

TLSCP April 15, 2020 at 5:13 PM
I have seen it but not done it Myself

Sleepmonger April 15, 2020 at 5:13 PM
unless you count collars and other mutually understood cues as flagging

mori April 15, 2020 at 5:13 PM
I know it's something that existed. But as far as I'm aware not really a thing anymore
[5:14 PM]
and more of a gay culture thing anyway

little dragon April 15, 2020 at 5:14 PM
I just learned about it myself

cimo (MHK) April 15, 2020 at 5:14 PM
Yea I haven't seen it used (in events I've frequented) in recent memory

little dragon April 15, 2020 at 5:14 PM
Bandanas are soft introductions between people in a bar and since the movie "Cruisin'" with Al Pacino, most commonly known. Here's the movie scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ok_SM-aSb4.

Hankies are self-labelling devices, material that has been imbued with meaning, intended to provide enough information for people to determine the likelihood of an erotic match. They provide a way of making an initial connection as an icebreaker.

kissa April 15, 2020 at 5:15 PM
If someone has a hanky in their pocket, there's a good chance they are down to talk about it. Use common sense when initiating a conversation. When approaching people with hankies in their pockets, a direct conversation works best.
[5:15 PM]
You could just ask, "Are you flagging?" or "Does that purple handkerchief mean what I think it means?" Both get the conversation going, whether or not the person is intentionally flagging.
[5:16 PM]
Supposedly designed to be a secret language of color and cloth predominantly used by gay men, handkerchiefs know no gender and has been adopted by the leather subculture and then more widely through BDSM club visitors.
[5:16 PM]
hanky code suggested an order to that chaos with a coexistence of many desires, and it did so through a fashion statement that anyone in the community(ies) could write themself into, with a low baseline of cost, knowledge or time.
[5:17 PM]

[5:17 PM]
The history of flagging is long and vaguely odd
[5:17 PM]
It starts with (probably) straight men
[5:18 PM]
there has been some thought that flagging began in the 1850's Gold Rush in the San Francisco area among miners, cowboys, and steam railroad engineers who would dance with each other during a period of a severe lack of female dance partners.

[5:18 PM]
The miners at square dances would tie their neckerchiefs around their arms to indicate a dance partner preference. Some websites have declared a blue/red standard of signalling with a blue kerchief being the "man"/leader and red being the "woman"/follower.
[5:18 PM]
However, it's more likely that it was the left/right arm choice of the handkerchief, as opposed to the specific color, but not necessarily indicative of any homoerotic intention. Tied around the left arm would indicate the leader (Fred Astaire) and the right would indicate the follower (Ginger Rogers).
[5:19 PM]
A similar code history has been noted in the NYC square dance community as well as among Quakers.
[5:19 PM]
The twentieth century saw the bandana's adaptation by motorcyclists, both straight and gay. They were especially popular with outlaw or 1%-er bikers, so self-named in joking contrast to the assertion that 99 percent of motorcycle riders were good, law-abiding citizens. Basic colors were red and blue.
[5:20 PM]
The polio scare in the mid-1950s lent towards a major decline in the usage of hankies for noses, which might have offered room for them to be more present as fashion items. Also noteworthy comes out of the Oakland (sing it with me) YMCA in the early 1900s, where kerchiefs were used as a positive reward system of setting goals and striving for personal growth.
[5:20 PM]
There's a fair number of anecdotes of the hanky code in some form or another going back into the 60s; Bob Guenther writes about the first published code in 1969. The earliest publishing of the hanky code that is commonly referenced is Larry Townsend's 1983 The Leatherman's Handbook II.
[5:21 PM]

[5:22 PM]
The history of gay male leather in the US [...includes] the years after World War II. Jack Fritscher gets into it in his intro to The Leatherman's Handbook II describing kinky gay men who had been in the military, and had found a sort of family and structure that resonated [with them]....
[5:22 PM]
And then they came home to a world with nothing like that. They found the counterculture of biker gangs, which provided a space of aggressive, rebellious masculinity that was at odds with popular images of gay men as weak, swishy, effeminate, and so forth.
[5:22 PM]
They wore leather to indicate that they were bikers and colors on the backs of their jackets to indicate which gang they were with. (For more information about that aspect and period of the subculture, see Guy Baldwin's essay at https://www.evilmonk.org/a/oldguard.cfm.
[5:23 PM]
Wearing handkerchiefs fits with that sartorial aesthetic. By the mid-70s there were magazines like Drummer and numerous leather bars. Leather looks had made their way into vanilla gay fashion, including the stylish wearing of keys hanging from belt loops.
[5:23 PM]
Townsend notes about the hanky code that most of it was just some guys sitting around trying to assign a color to everything
[5:23 PM]
However...
[5:24 PM]
Jack Rinella refutes this in his 1999 essay on The Old Guard at http://www.leatherviews.com/kinkyinfo/9930.htm stating "Do you think, after all, that the "founders" of Leather sat around inventing a hanky code? Sure someone sat down one day and compiled this long list of colors and meanings, but I bet that by the time that happened, the list was more tongue in cheek than color in the pocket!"
[5:24 PM]
The hanky color code itself had a humorous beginning. Although it was originally said in a sarcastic manner, a Village Voice article in the 1970s joked it would be easier for the gay leathermen in Greenwich Village of New York City to pick each other up if they didn't only have to rely on flagging themselves as tops and bottoms with their keys in their back pockets.
[5:25 PM]
That code was based on which pocket held their hanging keys (on their biker leathers and quasi-military uniform pieces left over from their days in WWII) might instead use different colored hankies from the surplus store at the intersection of Christopher and Washington Streets to indicate specific preference. in their back pockets. There were only a few colors suggested-red, navy, light blue, green and black-because that was all that Levi's produced at the time.
[5:25 PM]

[5:25 PM]
There is an attribution the expansion of the original red-blue system into today's code to marketing efforts around 1971 by the San Francisco department store for erotic merchandise, The Trading Post, promoting handkerchiefs by printing cards listing the meanings of various colors
[5:26 PM]
Alan Selby, founder of Mr. S Leather in San Francisco, claimed that he created the first hanky code with his business partners, Ron Ernst and Pat O'Brien, at Leather 'n' Things in 1972, when their bandana supplier inadvertently doubled their order and the expanded code would help them sell the extra colors they had received
[5:26 PM]
When in doubt, cede the history to commercialism
[5:27 PM]

Bob Damron's Address Book is also notable when referencing the Handkerchief Code. Starting in 1964, a businessman by the name of Bob Damron published a book of all the gay bars he knew from his constant travels across the United States. Bob Damron's Address Book also published a yearly chart for the meaning of each colored hanky under the title "COLOR CODES" The photos here is from 1980.
[5:27 PM]

[5:28 PM]
And, because a hand kerchief is an accessory, of course, Kate Bornstein's Gender Outlaw referenced the Samois Collective's 1981 Coming to Power which published a women-centric version of the Hanky Code two years before the Leather Handbook II.

kissa April 15, 2020 at 5:30 PM
The big question is - How do you flag?
[5:30 PM]
oh oh oh.. give it to me... please please

TLSCP April 15, 2020 at 5:30 PM
I am going out on a limb here but put a hanky in My pocket?

kissa April 15, 2020 at 5:31 PM
Gods, but she's good
[5:31 PM]
there's actually more

little dragon April 15, 2020 at 5:31 PM
Wedding ring

kissa April 15, 2020 at 5:31 PM
right

kissa April 15, 2020 at 5:31 PM
Wearing your flag on the LEFT means that you are the TOP. Wearing your flag on the right indicates that you are the bottom. Some folks will tie a handkerchief around their neck or pointed towards the back to signify switching.

Song Yung April 15, 2020 at 5:31 PM
so then putting one attached to my submissive's butt plug would not count?

kissa April 15, 2020 at 5:32 PM
actually, no, because that would indicate that your subbie is a switch
[5:32 PM]
and cloth absorbs lube and that would freaking hurt

Song Yung April 15, 2020 at 5:32 PM
it is ok cimo (MHK) yours will be attached to your nipple clamps

cimo (MHK) April 15, 2020 at 5:33 PM
Twirl it if you got it Miss

kissa April 15, 2020 at 5:33 PM
THAT would work, why? There's a left and right side
[5:33 PM]
Keys, wrist cuffs, jewelry, ribbons, nail polish, and especially hankies can be used for flagging
[5:33 PM]
Brooches, pins, or badges are a possibility - for example, they can be patterned, or even covered in fabric - but they're also rather small.
[5:34 PM]
You'd have to get fairly close to somebody to ‘read' the flag in question, which aside from being a bit iffy on the maintenance of personal space front (something with which femmes deal all the time as it is), also cancels out one of the other fundamental elements of flagging: the capacity to find those people whose interests might coincide with yours, even from afar.
[5:34 PM]
So, hankies - as the lovely Miss TL stated - put it in your pocket.
[5:34 PM]
duh
[5:34 PM]
Wear a bandana on your head, in your hair like a headband or around your neck.
[5:35 PM]
Ladies - Tie a bandana on your purse or bag. Carry your purse on your left side to indicate top and on your right side to indicate bottom
[5:35 PM]
Create a belt out of hankies. Knot a bunch together in one color or multiple colors and tie it around your waist like a belt, with the ends toward either side or the back (to indicate that you're a switch

TLSCP April 15, 2020 at 5:35 PM
also you can have multiple hankies

kissa April 15, 2020 at 5:35 PM
It's true, just like this guy
[5:35 PM]

[5:36 PM]
who is pretty effing kinky

Song Yung April 15, 2020 at 5:36 PM
he wants it all and Top and bottom

kissa April 15, 2020 at 5:36 PM
oh yeah
[5:36 PM]
Tie a hanky to your wrist, ankle, boot, belt loop or wherever else you can. Just put it on the side you wish to flag.
[5:36 PM]
Make a pin, charm, hair accessory, etc. out of bandanas.
[5:36 PM]

[5:37 PM]
because, omg, how cute is that?

mori April 15, 2020 at 5:37 PM
just the orange one would've sufficed as it's meaning apparently is "anything goes"

TLSCP April 15, 2020 at 5:37 PM
well he is a heavy S/m top and a golden bottom so.......

kissa April 15, 2020 at 5:37 PM
TLSCP with a military fetish
[5:37 PM]
In the past, gay go-go dancers wore them on their g-strings to indicate their after-work hookup preferences.
[5:37 PM]
a *trans military fetish
[5:38 PM]
mori , we will talk about orange. It's a funny color
[5:38 PM]
In the past, gay go-go dancers wore them on their g-strings to indicate their after-work hookup preferences.

Pjosi April 15, 2020 at 5:38 PM
I wonder what that means for our kings and queens...

kissa April 15, 2020 at 5:39 PM
Ladies, you can paint your nails or use those cute nail decals. Pick a color that corresponds to the hanky color you wish to flag. Paint your left hand for top, your right hand for bottom or both hands for switch. Or just paint the ring finger on whichever side you'd like to

mori April 15, 2020 at 5:39 PM
dont want to imagine that Pjosi

kissa April 15, 2020 at 5:39 PM
Pjosi if it's not hanging, it doesn't count
[5:39 PM]
and i will hush about that before i start making cracks about that
[5:40 PM]
Ribbons are frequently worn by ultra femmes that don't wear pants (thus lacking pockets or belt loops), boots, or yucky boy stuff.You can style a ribbon much like a scarf - around the neck, head, wrist, arm - or you can branch out into, say, rosettes, bows, flowers, hat-bands, etc.
[5:40 PM]
Worn the same way as a hanky
[5:40 PM]
Try scarves or ribbons as an alternative. Think hankies are heinous? Does a bandana clash with your outfit? Sub in a plain color fabric or use scarves or ribbons.
[5:41 PM]
keep it in mind when reading, say, Pride and Prejudice and you'll find that white, middle-class women have been ribbon flagging for years. Admittedly their choice is usually limited to the paler tones
[5:41 PM]
There is, arguably, the term "straight flagging" where a ring on the left fourth finger means married and a ring on the right fourth finger means committed but not married.
[5:41 PM]
Jay Wiseman in SM 101 proposes hets flag general kink interest with a "black leather ring, held together with a single rivet" on left or right as appropriate.

Pjosi April 15, 2020 at 5:42 PM
blinks That explains so much!

Pjosi April 15, 2020 at 5:42 PM
I have been wearing a ring at my left fourth finger for years and i get random questions about being married xD

kissa April 15, 2020 at 5:43 PM
oh yes, Pjosi that's a Western cultural norm

Pjosi April 15, 2020 at 5:43 PM
geez

kissa April 15, 2020 at 5:43 PM
whereas in India, a woman will wear her wedding rings made of silver on her toes

Sleepmonger April 15, 2020 at 5:43 PM
oh neat I did not know that

kissa April 15, 2020 at 5:44 PM
Before i start poppin' colors, there is no universally understood color code, and there have been some regional variations. There is general agreement upon the colours for more common practices, particularly those with an intuitive relation between the color and the practice.
[5:44 PM]
From a few basic colours of bandanas, there evolved over time an arcane array of specialty colours (and coded objects) conveying what are in many cases equally obscure sexual practises.

TLSCP April 15, 2020 at 5:44 PM
blinks

kissa April 15, 2020 at 5:44 PM
i knew that would get someone
[5:45 PM]
While in leather subcultures, the signifying factors of a bandana's colour and placement are arguably the most remarkable, You will find that in modern BDSM and queer subcultures, the hankie codes have been modified by "sexperts".

mori April 15, 2020 at 5:45 PM
I knew that. left is married but I wore mine right because thats the place it fitted better

kissa April 15, 2020 at 5:45 PM
Many are interested in removing all masculine connotations from flags and inserting pansexual definitions and modifications instead. You will find this on sites like https://flaggingopinicusrampant.wordpress.com/



mori April 15, 2020 at 5:45 PM
later moved it to the pinky

TLSCP April 15, 2020 at 5:45 PM
no I googled flagging images and was treated to a plethora of options


kissa April 15, 2020 at 5:46 PM
Miss TL, oh yes, but there are minute variations.
[5:46 PM]
We'll go over a few
[5:47 PM]
https://flaggingopinicusrampant.wordpress.com/hanky-code/ this is a modern hanky code chat. It's huge and also includes things like celery, so save it to look at later

This is a fraction of their flagging list.

https://flaggingopinicusrampant.wordpress.com/hanky-code/


Sleepmonger April 15, 2020 at 5:47 PM
Wow

Pjosi April 15, 2020 at 5:47 PM
mori i just thought it looks cool

kissa April 15, 2020 at 5:48 PM
This particular chart is pretty inclusive and more traditional than the celery chart https://user.xmission.com/~trevin/hanky.html

TLSCP April 15, 2020 at 5:48 PM
My little pony?

kissa April 15, 2020 at 5:48 PM
It takes all kinds, Lady

kissa April 15, 2020 at 5:49 PM
From a few basic colours of bandanas, there evolved over time an arcane array of specialty colours (and coded objects) conveying what are in many cases equally obscure sexual practises.

TLSCP April 15, 2020 at 5:50 PM
what if I have tattoos but I dont wear animal print?

kissa April 15, 2020 at 5:50 PM
TLSCP then you're clearly doing it wrong.
[5:50 PM]
wry look

Song Yung April 15, 2020 at 5:50 PM
kissa she is a non animal print person and I get flack for it

[5:51 PM]
Song Yung the things you have to tolerate. O.M.G.

Song Yung April 15, 2020 at 5:51 PM
I know right! my cross to bear for love

kissa April 15, 2020 at 5:51 PM
[5:51 PM]
okay, mori brought up orange
[5:51 PM]
Orange is disputed so i'm going to give you "the expert"
[5:52 PM]
Wearers of orange bandannas are among the most experienced of leathermen or fetishists. Their fetishes are so numerous, the wearing of numerous bandannas would be impractical, and unwieldy.

TLSCP April 15, 2020 at 5:52 PM
for the record leather is an animal skin, NOT an animal print

kissa April 15, 2020 at 5:52 PM
Instead, these men flag orange. When worn on the left, orange indicates that the wearer will top in relatively any fetish, anytime, anywhere. Conversely, when worn on the right, it indicates the wearer will bottom in relatively any fetish, anytime, anywhere.

[5:53 PM]
In a 2006 article on InternationalLeatherman.com, site owner Tom Ferrari, a well-known and predominant leatherman of today who self-identifies as a highly experienced bottom, states that he, himself, flags orange. In the article, he relates that the Internet is awash in the misconception that orange flagged on the right indicates, "nothing right now" or "just cruising".

Song Yung April 15, 2020 at 5:54 PM
TL wears leather proudly. Not animal print

kissa April 15, 2020 at 5:54 PM
another color that gets confused a little bit is gray/grey
[5:54 PM]
Involves rope, straitjackets, handcuffs, duct tape, cling wrap (for mummification), sleep sacks, vacuum sacks (or beds), cages, and other devices and modes of limiting the bottom's ability to move or to escape.

Song Yung April 15, 2020 at 5:54 PM
so forms of deprivation plays

cimo (MHK) April 15, 2020 at 5:54 PM
Straightjackets

kissa April 15, 2020 at 5:54 PM
you will see that a lot of charts just call it "bondage"

mori April 15, 2020 at 5:54 PM
I wonder, if the color code is not universal, how can people be wrong about it

kissa April 15, 2020 at 5:55 PM
there's a good question

mori April 15, 2020 at 5:55 PM
if the internet decided it's become that meaning and people adapt to it, thats what it is now

kissa April 15, 2020 at 5:56 PM
Another funky one is chamois - the thing and the color. indicates the wearer is looking for biker sex or motorcycle sex. Most commonly, this involves a motorcycle as a prop, or as a sexual device. It may involve one or more bikers in the sexual activities. Often not mentioned is that if the top has a motorcycle, the bottom wearing chamois may be asked or expected to wash or to polish the motorcycle.
[5:56 PM]
sex and manual labor. How fun.
[5:57 PM]

There are a lot of different greens. Be cautious with green. Check out the charts and move slowly - and expect to talk about it
[5:57 PM]
It generally involves money
[5:58 PM]
this can be a long or short term venture, with prostitution or being a Sugar Daddy/baby
[5:58 PM]
Kelly green Hustler John (left) or prospective sugar daddy (right)

There is a military green listed, so, again, expect to have that "soooo green" question.
[6:01 PM]
take a peek up there and notice that Purple varies from maroon in that purple is piercings and maroon is the act of piercing The shade of purple used for the purple bandana is the shade now known as HTML/CSS Purple

Song Yung April 15, 2020 at 6:01 PM
so this has become complicated over time in the effort to accommodate the ever growing kink listings

kissa April 15, 2020 at 6:01 PM
right???
[6:02 PM]
color wise, to wrap up, The color charcoal was chosen because initially rubber was the most common material used for this fetish and charcoal is the color of rubber. Although rubber is still used, today PVC and latex are more commonly used for this fetish.

Song Yung April 15, 2020 at 6:02 PM
new materials meeting the same old goals

kissa April 15, 2020 at 6:03 PM
If you take a look at the first site i mentioned having a chart, https://flaggingopinicusrampant.wordpress.com/ they HAVE changed meanings of generally understood colors

kissa April 15, 2020 at 6:03 PM
again, your milage may vary so expect to talk about it

TLSCP April 15, 2020 at 6:03 PM
since a variety of plays can be under a single color and everyone sees color in thier own unique way (and clubs are dark) communication

kissa April 15, 2020 at 6:04 PM
right
[6:04 PM]
And, most importantly
[6:04 PM]
To wrap up, flagging isn't a way to bypass consent.
[6:04 PM]
Many people may have found it less for flagging specific desired activities and more for flagging community participation and awareness - "being one of us". When participation in a community means dressing significantly alike - a common complaint about leather spaces -

Song Yung April 15, 2020 at 6:04 PM
it is a visual aide tool to assist in opening up conversation and shortcut the kink likes

kissa April 15, 2020 at 6:04 PM
a visual expression of personality is appealing, and its personality you get to stick on your masculine ass that's just itching to be squeezed. And many people may have found it a style not personally useful to wear but a wonderful indicator that they found the right bar.
[6:05 PM]
Song Yung exactly. It's an icebreaker
[6:05 PM]
Flagging is no longer as popular in the modern day era. It may be seen as something kinkier to use in gay pornography, or at sex and fetish events like the Folsom Street Fair. Social networks may have replaced the use of hankies in cruising areas by digitizing the process.
[6:05 PM]
By using online platforms, men who have sex with men (MSM) can eliminate harassment and violence that they may face in public. Social networks for MSM also allow for sub-groups, and for people to list fetishes, and what they are looking for, which is where the replacement of the need for hankies may have come from

Sleepmonger April 15, 2020 at 6:05 PM
Ok that's a good point and part of the questions I have about it. A lot of those codes look like invitations for something that might bypass consent

kissa April 15, 2020 at 6:05 PM
Great question
[6:06 PM]
So, consent is that funny thing that, once you give it, it's theirs until you take it back - But first you have to GIVE it.

Song Yung April 15, 2020 at 6:06 PM
Sleepmonger and far from that as it would violate the basic foundation tenets of BDSM SSC starter

Sleepmonger April 15, 2020 at 6:06 PM
yeah that's why it was bothering me
[6:06 PM]
it just really doesn't fit in with the current consent sensitive play spaces and there's a lot of risk of people inadvertently flagging something or coming from different flagging culture and misrepresenting themselves.

kissa April 15, 2020 at 6:06 PM
So, yes i can flag as a heavy bottom, but it's still MINE until i give it to YOU.

TLSCP April 15, 2020 at 6:07 PM
another thing that is doing away with flagging is apps like tinder where you can list your kinks and then find like minded people

Sleepmonger April 15, 2020 at 6:07 PM
yes!
[6:07 PM]
being able to list your kinks and communicate them openly is such a great change

kissa April 15, 2020 at 6:07 PM
That's why we have to talk. I can flag all day long. But still, we need to talk before we jump into the sack and you stick your hand up my hoohoo

Song Yung April 15, 2020 at 6:08 PM
especially depending how manicured and clean those hands are too

kissa April 15, 2020 at 6:08 PM
okay, so, charts out. Why does the cover of Bruce Springsteen's Born in the USA make me laugh my butt off?

TLSCP April 15, 2020 at 6:09 PM
maybe the boss is into fisting

Song Yung April 15, 2020 at 6:09 PM
he likes to be fisted

kissa April 15, 2020 at 6:09 PM
there you go

kissa April 15, 2020 at 6:10 PM
real quick, i'm going to slam you with citations

Song Yung April 15, 2020 at 6:10 PM
Hey. He's The Boss. If he wants to be fisted, then so be it

TLSCP April 15, 2020 at 6:10 PM
he has the E street band for that

kissa April 15, 2020 at 6:10 PM
https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2018/05/200229/lgbtq-secret-handkerchief-code-language
https://www.autostraddle.com/queer-flagging-101-how-to-use-the-hanky-code-to-signal-the-sex-you-want-to-have-430594/
https://beyondhankycode.wordpress.com/2014/01/17/hanky-code-folklore-language-and-leather/
https://stuffqueerpeopleneedtoknow.wordpress.com/2012/04/30/flagging-for-femmes-and-other-people-who-need-an-alternative-to-the-back-pocket/
http://vestoj.com/colour-codes/?fbclid=IwAR0eckw-cPU5x4vxo3utJJcqKiSSEwgcGjntyyVbccOUi0UvYJI_yK12MPU
https://flaggingopinicusrampant.wordpress.com/
https://www.thesaintfoundation.org/community/hanky-code-bob-damrons-address-book
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handkerchief_code
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handkerchief_code#/media/File:Hanky_Codes.png
https://flaggingopinicusrampant.wordpress.com/hanky-code/

[6:10 PM]
Susan Stryker and Jim Van Buskirk Gay by the Bay: A History of Queer Culture in the San Francisco Bay Area San Francisco:1996--Chronicle Books ISBN 0-8118-1187-5 Page 18
Hal Fischer, Signifiers for a Male Response, from the series Gay Semiotics, 1977. Courtesy of MoMA.
Fischer, Hal (1977). Gay Semiotics . San Francisco: NFS Press. ISBN 0-917986-03-2. Jones, Jordy (2017).
The Mayor of Folsom Street, The Auto/Biography of "Daddy Alan" Selby aka Mr. S. Fair Page Media LLC. pp. 61-62. ISBN 978-0-9989098-0-6.
[6:10 PM]
okay, i'm done - questions?

kissa April 15, 2020 at 6:11 PM
oh, and deeply amusing - if you reallly like flagging, you can wear it https://www.vogue.com/article/ladyfag-opening-ceremony-hanky-code-capsule-collection-ladyland-festival-pride-month-queer-gay-music-festival

kissa April 15, 2020 at 6:12 PM
thanks, ladies and gentlemen
[6:12 PM]
Many thanks go to the lovely and talented little dragon who attended an online class on flagging and gave a good outline of where we'd go today!

Song Yung April 15, 2020 at 6:13 PM
kissa thank you so much for your hard research and I know some of it comes from offline experiences too

Sleepmonger April 15, 2020 at 6:13 PM
I like the idea of the symbolism but something about it bothers me a little. I like to talk I guess so when it gets this elaborate I'm just curious what the point is when we can and should just communicate with each other.

little dragon ty also yall did excellent job

Sleepmonger April 15, 2020 at 6:14 PM
but you touched on that it's an icebreaker and secret code between people in the know

mori April 15, 2020 at 6:14 PM
I do wonder where to put that celery

Song Yung April 15, 2020 at 6:14 PM
Sleepmonger as stated before, it is a visual aide tool to shortcut quickly among a sea of people who may be into similar kinks where it allows them to gravitate to each other

mori April 15, 2020 at 6:14 PM
because I want that brunch
[6:15 PM]
on the receiving end

kissa April 15, 2020 at 6:15 PM
Song Yung honestly, i haven't been to a BDSM club in a long damned time, but, waaay back 25 years ago, people WERE still flagging in clubs and it was neat to try to figure stuff out

TLSCP April 15, 2020 at 6:15 PM
you could put it in a bloody mary

mori April 15, 2020 at 6:15 PM
Ill also take the toothbrush, telling them it will be their place

kissa April 15, 2020 at 6:16 PM
A lot of this stuff really is bored people sitting in a Dennys, drunk, shooting the shit, writing it on napkins. You know you have to take it all with a grain of salt.

Sleepmonger April 15, 2020 at 6:17 PM
Yep! Song Yung I just mean when it hits the level of specificity it seems to be at in the lists it doesn't seem to do that as much as basic colors or symbols followed by conversation?
[6:17 PM]
lol kissa you're so right

cimo (MHK) April 15, 2020 at 6:17 PM
brings "flagging for dummies" to next dungeon party to flip through

TLSCP April 15, 2020 at 6:17 PM
its an icebreaker

kissa April 15, 2020 at 6:17 PM
If you want, really, just go with those basic Levis bandana colors. Know those and ask about any others - including the nut sitting at the end of the bar with a piece of celery sticking out of her purse

Song Yung April 15, 2020 at 6:18 PM
Sleepmonger or as I say, sometimes we get caught up in political scattergories and before you know it, every minority wants a special symbol. I think Asians should have yellow with pink stripes and blue diamonds bullshit

kissa April 15, 2020 at 6:18 PM
or "wow, are you flagging that you want to fuck in a public bathroom?" "Um, no, it got stuck in my belt in the bathroom"

Sleepmonger April 15, 2020 at 6:19 PM
I feel like no matter what happens or what the symbolism is I'm going over and talking to the celery nut

kissa April 15, 2020 at 6:19 PM
oh, bless. Look at the sexual glossary on the site for flags. Any asshole with PSP and a tumblr can make a new flag defining their "thing"
[6:19 PM]
laughs hopefully, they make a good eggs Benedict

Sleepmonger April 15, 2020 at 6:20 PM
Oh I was kind of curious if any of you think a form of flagging could be a good tool here for things like il-solaio or the orgies

kissa April 15, 2020 at 6:20 PM
Sleepmonger we do that!

Sleepmonger April 15, 2020 at 6:21 PM
The hearts indicating participation are a good start but would it be a good idea to have tags with acceptable play with the green members?

kissa April 15, 2020 at 6:22 PM
Sleepmonger totally. Sure, i can *probably hop in the lap of someone with a green heart, but i'm going to ask first because i'm polite and am a fan of consent

Sleepmonger April 15, 2020 at 6:23 PM
Yes of course just like you mentioned earlier I'm not thinking of something that would bypass consent just a way to identify interests

Pjosi April 15, 2020 at 6:23 PM
I didnt notice flagging at the parties i went to

mori April 15, 2020 at 6:24 PM
There's none there Pjosi . the closest it gets is like the bands at Filthy Sinners

kissa April 15, 2020 at 6:24 PM
Pjosi from my research (which may or may not count for something) flagging seems like a faaairly American contrivance and it's really just not used much anymore.

mori April 15, 2020 at 6:24 PM
that indicate being open to play

Pjosi April 15, 2020 at 6:25 PM
mori oh yeah i remember those

little dragon April 15, 2020 at 6:25 PM
kissa and UK

kissa April 15, 2020 at 6:26 PM
little dragon, very good point, thank you

Thank you all for joining us.