kissa 8/10 16:09 Sweet brie asked that we talk about TRUST next so we'll have a little bit of me blabbering and a lot more of you sharing your thoughts. Please, know, though, that I will often be playing Devil's Advocate on this one.

kissa 8/10 16:09 Please know that it's not a personal attack, it's a way to get you to explain your thoughts more so we can get some great conversation going. I would really love your honest and open thoughts here rather than some romantic Dungeon-In-The-Castle-In-The-Sky claptrap.

kissa 8/10 16:10 Just for the hell of it, here are the specific room rules so we're all on the same page.

kissa 8/10 16:11 There are different forms of trust, social, organizational, and Interpersonal trust. Today, we're specifically talking about Interpersonal Trust. Ask The Kink Shrink stays, "The one we are talking about is interpersonal, the bloke with the swishy thing or the woman with your heart. So how do we define trust? How do you?"

snowdrop 8/10 16:12 For me, it's being able to be myself with another person and know that they won't attack me for it or use it against me to manipulate me, just accept it

kissa 8/10 16:13 snowdrop that's a big deal! i actually even mention it later.

HellPrincess 8/10 16:13 Trust.... is being able to believe that the other individual will consistently act in my best interest and respects my wellbeing

kissa 8/10 16:13 HellPrincess consistency is vital for creating trust, yes


kissa 8/10 16:14 Newcomers, how do we define trust? How do you?"

CaughtNTheQuiet 8/10 16:14 snowdrop I'm with you...giving someone my me-ness is my way of saying I trust them

Brett 8/10 16:14 trust....ito me is to have a dependable partner - who will always look out for my back

HellPrincess 8/10 16:15 Trust also means that I believe you have integrity. It's a risk to take.

Mememe2 8/10 16:15 *sits quietly and listens*

kissa 8/10 16:15 dependable - goes with consistency, yes?

Sero 8/10 16:15 Trust is fragile

Mememe2 8/10 16:15 Sero Veryyyyy

kissa 8/10 16:15 Sero yes, Sir

Ou812 8/10 16:15 Very

snowdrop 8/10 16:15 Trust is mutually constructed

CaughtNTheQuiet 8/10 16:15 Sero and once lost is damn near impossible to rebuild to the same level

snowdrop 8/10 16:16 Or deconstructed

Sero 8/10 16:16 CaughtNTheQuiet it can take a long time, if even possible.

kissa 8/10 16:16 Webster's New World Dictionary: Trust: (as a noun or thing) 1. a firm belief in the honesty, reliability, etc. of some person or thing; faith 2. the one trusted 3. confident expectation, hope, etc.: as, have trust in the future. 4. (a) the fact of having confidence placed in one. (b) responsibility resulting from this. 5. care; custody 6. something entrusted to a person; care, charge, duty, etc.

Brett 8/10 16:16 Sero and although it takes a long to time to reach - Sero you are right it can disappear with one wrong statement or act etc

kissa 8/10 16:16 Trust: (as a verb or action) 1. to have confidence in; rely on. 2. to commit (to a person's care). 3. to put something confidently in the charge of a person: as, I trusted him with my car. 4. to allow to do something without fear of the outcome. 5. to believe. 6. to hope; expect

kissa 8/10 16:17 So, you guys are really hitting the same keywords, right?

kissa 8/10 16:17 CastleRealm's jade said, "You can see that there are two forms of trust. Trust as a "thing" and trust as an "action." Both have their place in a relationship. We have trust and we trust.

CaughtNTheQuiet 8/10 16:17 Sero exactly...if you break my trust, I will probably forgive you but the odds of me ever giving you all that I am again is probably never going to happen

Brett 8/10 16:17 i think so kissa -- we all want to believe in our partners and they are looking after us -- with no other adgenda

kissa 8/10 16:18 CaughtNTheQuiet oh, we need to talk again on forgiveness again

kissa 8/10 16:18 Brett i think so, yeah.

kissa 8/10 16:18 We all too often equate trust with things involving physical peril. It does take an enormous about of trust to allow someone to bind you into helplessness and stand over you with a whip that could bring a large horse to its knees if used improperly.

HellPrincess 8/10 16:18 To build trust takes vulnerability. Willingness to have faith. Trust is also built, through time. Trust isn't s blind assumption or expectation- that's just hope

kissa 8/10 16:19 Welcome newcomers! This week we're talking trust, so please jump on in. How do you define trust?

peeking duck 8/10 16:19 HellPrincess i appreciate that you said that trust isn't blind

snowdrop 8/10 16:19 I have to say, that I have had trust broken but it led to amazingly raw and vulnerable discussions which actually ended up strengthening my trust in them to respect my boundaries in the future

kissa 8/10 16:19 HellPrincess Do you think that a lot of relationships start on hope, though?

kissa 8/10 16:20 snowdrop wow, that's pretty rare.

Brett 8/10 16:20 kissa no trust is not only physical it is more emontional

kissa 8/10 16:20 Brett absolutely, i agree.

SapphireVenom 8/10 16:20 snowdrop you're stronger than me, like once that trust is broken that's pretty much it for me..it would take a long time if ever for me to fully trust them again

kissa 8/10 16:21 Just to mention it because it kind of hangs out there, we also relate it to being faithful to our partner." The Bible talks about trust throughout but this phrase stays in the back of my head for some reason as it seems to relate to D/s and submissives specifically, "Who can find a virtuous wife? For her worth is far above rubies." Proverbs 31:10 NKJV.

Brett 8/10 16:21 it is the emotional side that if trust fails hurts more

HellPrincess 8/10 16:21 kissa of course. I think most do. But the deeper we delve into a relationship, the more we should concern ourselves with inspiring trust in each other.

kissa 8/10 16:22 SapphireVenom i think we might need to know more about the relationship. If it's a close one, perhaps not all of it was stripped away. Just the trust not to do the thing was

SapphireVenom 8/10 16:22 I feel like that's my life experience working against me though, which that's the hard part about trust for me. How do we stop ourselves from bringing that past trust issues into a new relationship whether that's friends or otherwise

kissa 8/10 16:22 HellPrincess that's a really great point. Could you expand on that some more?

Sero 8/10 16:22 I have a lot of trust issues, myself.

HellPrincess 8/10 16:22 snowdrop rebuilding trust is brave. And if it's a serious commitment by both sides, it can lead to beautiful developments

peeking duck 8/10 16:23 i tend to find myself trusting in different capacities, i may trust someone in one area, but not in others.

Mememe2 8/10 16:23 Trust mmmhm

kissa 8/10 16:23 SapphireVenom girl, i have no idea. That's a big, big question. Maybe some our friends here have some ideas

LadyFlirtatious 8/10 16:23 HellPrincess yes

LadyFlirtatious 8/10 16:23 HellPrincess it takes a level of openness most cannot handle

snowdrop 8/10 16:23 HellPrincess it was more a matter of discussion, was O/our relationship worth more than that single incident of broken trust and was that going to happen again. In the end W/we knew what W/we had was more valuable and it wouldn't ever be repeated.

kissa 8/10 16:24 snowdrop and was it, in fact, still maintained through time?

Sero 8/10 16:24 SapphireVenom that is not always easy. What I would recommend is communication (shocker) with your new partner. Be open and honest on your past hurst and breaches of trust. Give them a fram of understanding so they can help build that back up as they deserve, not the person before them.

LadyFlirtatious 8/10 16:24
kissa 8/10 16:24 LadyFlirtatious how does it take openness?

CaughtNTheQuiet 8/10 16:24 SapphireVenom you can't stop it...you CAN recognize what you're doing and self-correct..it's a process. I've been with my partner for 19 years and every now and then I find myself caught in a moment that reminds me of something that happened with my ex from over 20 years ago

snowdrop 8/10 16:25 kissa yes, W/we made it very clear

Sero 8/10 16:25 *frame of understanding

Daviddoes 8/10 16:25 Hmmmm

snowdrop 8/10 16:25 There was a lot of anger, crying, frustration but W/we talked thru it all

kissa 8/10 16:25 CaughtNTheQuiet your ex was a douchebag.

LadyFlirtatious 8/10 16:25 kissa rebuilding trust requires that the person who broke the trust be utterly open and transparent. Many arent capable

kissa 8/10 16:25 snowdrop wow, that's really amazing

CaughtNTheQuiet 8/10 16:26 kissa yes, dear, I am aware of your feelings lol

SapphireVenom 8/10 16:26 Sero I guess my issue with that is I come with a lot of a past, how do you explain that to someone brand new without terrifying them? It's all important but like that's a lot to dump onto someone

HellPrincess 8/10 16:26 kissa well. When we meet someone we have chemistry with, whom we are attracted to, and we wish to get more involved, we do so in hopes of finding joy, connection, etc. That's the optimism we first embody when we "court"; however, it should*** occur, that as time passes and you begin to speak about more personal things, you both create a circle of comfort. I am comfortable with you when we speak of xyz. I can feel safe in this realm. And with every passing experience it should expand.

kissa 8/10 16:26 Daviddoes welcome! We're talking about Trust. How do you define it? How do you maintain it? When it's broken, can you fix it?

snowdrop 8/10 16:26 I'm a firm believer in not going to bed upset, and if W/we do W/we still hold each other, that helps

HellPrincess 8/10 16:27 snowdrop I'm happy for you. Truly. It's an indication of your commitment to each other, and your ability to grow

kissa 8/10 16:27 SapphireVenom again, a good question. Can a thought of the wall be expressed without going into a huge backstory?

SapphireVenom 8/10 16:27 CaughtNTheQuiet your ex sounds like he sucks, and I'm truly sorry

Daviddoes 8/10 16:28 kissa ha! I'm not the one to ask.

SapphireVenom 8/10 16:28 kissa I wrote questions down for this one lol trust is a huge problem for me, especially at this stage in my life

snowdrop 8/10 16:28 SapphireVenom usually it comes up, one thing at a time and it's just a matter of slowly unpacking things as they arise

Daviddoes 8/10 16:28 kissa it's pretty simple to me

Sero 8/10 16:28 SapphireVenom I mean, maybe don't dump it all first date, and start smaller when you do. As you start to care more and more for someone, listen to your heart on what it needs from them. I know that sounds cliche, but you'll get more and more comfortable sharing, so keep an eye on your own feelings and comfort.

kissa 8/10 16:28 Daviddoes you are, though because how you think of trust may match what someone else thinks or questions and we can kick it around

CaughtNTheQuiet 8/10 16:29 SapphireVenom thanks...it is as a very long time ago so those instances are few and far between, totally random, and (usually) easily dealt with

Jaxxy 8/10 16:29 Me and Daddy are in therapy. Some of you know why, some of you don't but it's gotten me to trust him again

kissa 8/10 16:29 SapphireVenom good!

Jaxxy 8/10 16:29 Finding a kink allied therapist was the best advice kissa ever gave me

snowdrop 8/10 16:29 SapphireVenom you raise a very good point, it depends on the relationship on the degree of things you share

Daviddoes 8/10 16:29 kissa I'm a one-woman guy. You can figure it out from there

kissa 8/10 16:30 Jaxxy that can be super important. What was the process of finding that person?

Daviddoes 8/10 16:30 kissa once committed

kissa 8/10 16:30 Daviddoes there's nothing wrong with that. What does that feeling do or what should it do for you?

Jaxxy 8/10 16:30 I have the link idk if I can share it though

kissa 8/10 16:31 you should be, with your

kissa 8/10 16:31 if not, i'll personally get someone to fix it

LadyFlirtatious 8/10 16:31 I find that a lot of people forget it takes trust to open up and admit fears, flaws, mistakes, insecurities that lead to dishonesty in the first place

Jaxxy 8/10 16:31 https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists/sex-positive-kink-allied

Sero 8/10 16:31 Daviddoes this is not to be combative, just trying to get your opinion. Do you think 2 women kind of guys can't be trusted?

Ou812 8/10 16:31 LadyFlirtatious

Jaxxy 8/10 16:32 We went there, found our area, then called around to see who would best fit our needs and O/our dynamic

kissa 8/10 16:32 LadyFlirtatious but once you're damaged, it closes that ability off, right?

snowdrop 8/10 16:32 LadyFlirtatious I view trust more as a product of it, and see the hope, courage, and faith in someone as the before

DeLove 8/10 16:32 Is it ok to be naked?

kissa 8/10 16:32 So, question. Does trust matter more in bdsm? Maybe not in the relationship itself, but perhaps in what we do in it?

SapphireVenom 8/10 16:32 Jaxxy shut the front door there's one in this small as town I'm in.

Daviddoes 8/10 16:33 kissa ha! It means you come home with me

HellPrincess 8/10 16:33 Trust is also not about fidelity- it's about, will you share confidential information with others? When you say you will do X, do I truly believe you will follow through? Are you genuine when you speak to me? Will you respect my comfort, my voice, my space?

kissa 8/10 16:33 DeLove we don't care but please don't disrupt chat

Jaxxy 8/10 16:33 SapphireVenom it helps lol you don't have to hide. Not to mention most of them find us fascinating lmao


SapphireVenom 8/10 16:33 kissa trust matters in every relationship, whether that is just your friends or your lover. It doesn't matter more to me than another

LadyFlirtatious 8/10 16:33 kissa no. Just makes it harder

kissa 8/10 16:34 Daviddoes but i'm across the country and don't know if it's worth it because i am really scared about what could happen, so, what do i and you, do?

kissa 8/10 16:34 LadyFlirtatious how?

LadyFlirtatious 8/10 16:34 I think most deceptions happen because the person didn't trust enough to be honest, show their real feelings

snowdrop 8/10 16:34 kissa I think it has to, you are adding a physically dangerous dimension and you have to trust that They will not only learn how to make sure you stay alive but do it as well

kissa 8/10 16:35 LadyFlirtatious well, yes, either deliberately or not

HellPrincess 8/10 16:35 kissa I think it matters more than people realize.

snowdrop 8/10 16:35 LadyFlirtatious that's very true sadly

LadyFlirtatious 8/10 16:36 kissa i think most of the time, its not intentional to hurt, its just selfishness and fear

kissa 8/10 16:36 snowdrop okay, but when my totally vanilla now husband (don't even ask) visited me for the first time, i had to worry about my safety then, too

snowdrop 8/10 16:36 And the psychological aspects as well, I think trust is very important

LadyFlirtatious 8/10 16:36 Few seek to simply hurt someone.

kissa 8/10 16:36 HellPrincess how? Why?

Daviddoes 8/10 16:36 kissa I'm sorry. I wasn't being specific. I meant, I'm a one-woman man unless she has different ideas, but she comes home with me

kissa 8/10 16:37 A crazy vanilla person can harm me just as easily, right?

LadyFlirtatious 8/10 16:37 Trust is about fidelity, and a million other types of honesty

Sero 8/10 16:37 LadyFlirtatious what is fidelity, though?

LadyFlirtatious 8/10 16:37 Fidelity is just one

kissa 8/10 16:37 Daviddoes OOOOOHhhhhhhh that makes a lot of sense and is generally close to my policy

LadyFlirtatious 8/10 16:37 Sero exactly

kissa 8/10 16:37 LadyFlirtatious so, like what?

snowdrop 8/10 16:37 kissa to different levels, yes.

HellPrincess 8/10 16:37 LadyFlirtatious *nods* when people haven't felt safe enough to be themselves in the past, they go into new encounters wearing a mask. Already starting from a point of deception, it corrupts the nature of the relationship. Not that any relationship is pure but- it's hard to remain stable when tje foundation has so many holes

kissa 8/10 16:38 Definition 4 of the verb "trust" says it well: "to allow to do something without fear of the outcome." Fear of outcome? What does it entail?

Sero 8/10 16:38 LadyFlirtatious I ask because what you and I view as fidelity may be totally different, is all.

LadyFlirtatious 8/10 16:38 HellPrincess yes

Ou812 8/10 16:39 HellPrincess well said

kissa 8/10 16:39 It indicates that trust does not end with an act of trust but extends into the future to include the outcome of that act. Definition 3 of the noun says much the same thing: "confident expectation, hope, etc.:

snowdrop 8/10 16:39 Sero I was wondering that too

kissa 8/10 16:39 as, have trust in the future." trust that goes beyond the moment. It has to include future acts and conditions. "If I trust him with this will he use it against me later?" "If I trust her with my heart, will she take advantage of it at other times?" This is a HUGE sticking spot for Dominants that are bringing home a live-in submissive.

LadyFlirtatious 8/10 16:39 Sero i view fidelity as honesty in relationships. Only being with people openly and with transparency

kissa 8/10 16:39 (For a cautionary tale about a Dominant's trust, see Noriche's "Learning To Trust Again" on The Garden site. If you don't know where it is, feel free to Google "Noriche The Garden Learning to Trust Again" as I can't give the link here.)

kissa 8/10 16:40 We talk about submissives being the ones to need to trust, but Dominants do, too.

LadyFlirtatious 8/10 16:40 If you are sneaking around lying about relationships or interactions with another, there is no fidelity

LadyFlirtatious 8/10 16:40 kissa yes

snowdrop 8/10 16:40 So trust is a process, starts with hope and the outcome either strengthens or weakens it over time?

Sero 8/10 16:41 LadyFlirtatious okay, then we share a definition. I have been in relationships with multiple people, and always held the rule of transparency with all of my partners. I consider myself highly faithful, even though I do tend to be with multiple people at once in some level or form.

LadyFlirtatious 8/10 16:41 Sero exactly

HellPrincess 8/10 16:41 Learning to trust is the most difficult thing I have ever had to let myself do. I found someone I can trust with my heart and still I struggle to be open always. It's an active choice I make every single day

LadyFlirtatious 8/10 16:42 It's about honesty, not monogamy. Monogamy does not mean trust is there, and poly does not mean you cant trust

LadyFlirtatious 8/10 16:42 HellPrincess it's risky

kissa 8/10 16:42 Within that, framework, LadyFlirtatious what does fidelity mean in your house? You share everything or have an agreement about how who you play with written or understood?

Sero 8/10 16:43 LadyFlirtatious thank you, exactly. There will always be a stigma surrounding poly, but that's just societal issues more than poly issues.

LadyFlirtatious 8/10 16:43 James and i have 100% openness about who we are with, if not, it will end

kissa 8/10 16:43 BTW, on topic, Sero will be having a chat on Wednesday evening on Being Poly.


Jaxxy 8/10 16:43 Oh good I'll have to try and stay up for that

Sero 8/10 16:43 kissa one of my favorite topics

LadyFlirtatious 8/10 16:44 Sero i find poly to be more honest at times. In order to make it work you have to do the work to get there

kissa 8/10 16:44 Sero mine, too!

kissa 8/10 16:44 I know we all have "trust issues" when it comes to meeting your next partner or your maybe-forever partner. What are some of yours? One of my biggest ones is a terrible fear of abandonment because that's happened a few times.

snowdrop 8/10 16:44 LadyFlirtatious Sir and I have a similar agreement, but it's taken a while to get there

HellPrincess 8/10 16:45 LadyFlirtatious in poly there is an admission of desires. Many people in monogamous relationships are afraid to speak up.

Jaxxy 8/10 16:45 We work through issues in regard to open marriage bringing in another person for throuple in therapy

LadyFlirtatious 8/10 16:45 James is still learning and we are still just testing waters.

Sero 8/10 16:45 LadyFlirtatious it certainly seems more common (anecdotally speaking, of course) to find poly relationships with proper (or attempted) communication than monogamous, I find.

snowdrop 8/10 16:45 As I move into more traditional dating, one of my biggest trust issues is how and when to bring up this lifestyle actually kissa

Jaxxy 8/10 16:45 It allows for us to critically think in our discussions

HellPrincess 8/10 16:46 kissa I fear that I will be used and discarded once I'm no longer interesting, shiny, pretty

Sero 8/10 16:46 I had to put all kinds of disclaimers in that while painting with such a broad brush.

LadyFlirtatious 8/10 16:46 Sero lol

kissa 8/10 16:46 Jaxxy i'm sorry, i didn't understand. Would you please rephrase what you mean in the top statement?

kissa 8/10 16:46 HellPrincess oh yeah, big one.

LadyFlirtatious 8/10 16:46 It requires a depth of communication and openness that many mono relationships never attempt

kissa 8/10 16:46 Sero hee

peeking duck 8/10 16:47

kissa 8/10 16:48 LadyFlirtatious well, yeah. It's messy and it's messy talking about it sometimes because of the emotions and the other person's feelings about sex.

kissa 8/10 16:48 peeking duck you are having thoughts. What's up?

Jaxxy 8/10 16:48 Um I'm new to open marriage, play partners. So we talked our rules through with therapist

kissa 8/10 16:49 Trusting someone with your emotions and your innermost thoughts seems to be the most difficult act we encounter. Why?

kissa 8/10 16:49 Jaxxy oh, that's the throuple discussion. got it, thank you

Jaxxy 8/10 16:49 We started with swinging, now have solo play partners, but eventually I would like to add another woman to our relationship

kissa 8/10 16:49 Jaxxy Why? What would A say?

snowdrop 8/10 16:50 kissa I think it's because it's the parts of us we keep to ourselves and if they reject that then they are rejecting us

Sero 8/10 16:50 It's a level of vulnerability. Not only can this person hurt you more than anyone else, you're showing them all of the buttons to do it more efficiently, if they chose.

Jaxxy 8/10 16:50 Why what? What would who say?

kissa 8/10 16:50 snowdrop that's a big one. As in, i read it and my stomach clenched

peeking duck 8/10 16:51 i think it is often because those are the things we tend to beat ourselves up about, if we cant love or accept those things about ourselvesm how can we possibly expect someone else to?

snowdrop 8/10 16:51 And social rejection to our brains is very similar to physical pain

kissa 8/10 16:51 Sero maaaaaan that's a lot of trust. Is it worth it?

Sero 8/10 16:51 kissa that's always the question

HellPrincess 8/10 16:52 Can I trust you to mean what you say, when you give me a compliment, input on my work, when you say you love me? And now as I wrote it down I realize that trust, is equally as much about the other person's sincerity, as our own feelings about ourselves. To trust is to accept the consequences of having that trust broken, and hold ourselves accountable for the decisions we make letting others in. Some could call it victim blaming.... I call it, facing uncertainty with maturity

kissa 8/10 16:52 peeking duck, you, lovely quack, get the "Preach It Girl" award tonight. So, really, preach it. Please expand on those thoughts, if you can.

kissa 8/10 16:54 Sero in the meantime, you're opening yourself up and if this person puts the brakes on, now there's a information available to be spread around. I am sure that we've all heard horror stories of someone being betrayed or outed. Hell, it happened to my ex with his ex.

kissa 8/10 16:54 snowdrop you're right. How can that manifest, do you think?

snowdrop 8/10 16:55 One of the biggest ones is maladaptive behaviours we take with us to new relationships

kissa 8/10 16:55 HellPrincess why would someone call it victim blaming, do you think?

kissa 8/10 16:55 snowdrop what kind?

peeking duck 8/10 16:55 i find it easy to trust someone with the things i love about myself, things i am confident in. because those are solid and cant be shaken. but when it does come time to be vulnerable it is with the things about myself i dont like, or things i see in myself i wouldn't necessarily like in someone else. so rejection in those small areas, will confirm what i already fear most about those things.

snowdrop 8/10 16:56 Our past experiences make us more jaded and closed off and fearful to trust

kissa 8/10 16:56 Do you think that we trust more easily with physical things, rather than emotional ones, everyone?

snowdrop 8/10 16:56 peeking duck very well said

peeking duck 8/10 16:56 so trusting someone is literally saying here are all the things i do not like about me, and in essense asking them to like them

CaughtNTheQuiet 8/10 16:56 Yes kissa

kissa 8/10 16:57 snowdrop sooo what to do about it?

kissa 8/10 16:57 CaughtNTheQuiet well... why?

HellPrincess 8/10 16:57 kissa because if someone violates our trust, they are the primary offenders... but i don't see the world as a bad person Vs an innocent person. I see ot as breaks in communication, lack of observation, weak sense of security, and that falls on both parties

snowdrop 8/10 16:57 kissa experiencing trust is the only way to relearn over our experiences

kissa 8/10 16:58 peeking duck Sero said something similar. What happens if they slap you in response?

CaughtNTheQuiet 8/10 16:58 Physical wounds, generally, heal easier than emotional ones

SweetSass 8/10 16:58 peeking duck oooof. This.

peeking duck 8/10 16:58 kissa me personally, i shut it down. i will close off that part, to never share that side again.

kissa 8/10 16:59 HellPrincess sometimes it is bad guy v good guy, though. Sometimes, it actually is criminal. So... but that's going to screw us up, too

peeking duck 8/10 16:59 it doesn't mean an end to the relationship be it a friendship or more, but it means i know better than to share in that capacity again

kissa 8/10 16:59 snowdrop 'splain, please, Lucy?

snowdrop 8/10 17:00 kissa once we learn something or experience something, it is all we know until we experience something else

sweetbelle 8/10 17:00 If a side of me I trusted to share has been hurt I generally won't share it as easily again... especially if it's my most vulnerable side

kissa 8/10 17:00 peeking duck all the while, some hot mallard has the same parts and is shut down about it, terrified that someone will slap him. What then?

kissa 8/10 17:01 snowdrop thank you! So, can trust issues be ... overwritten? Anyone and everyone, please?

HellPrincess 8/10 17:01 kissa it is. All possibilities exist. But I think a lot of people assume they are good and others are bad, simply because they neglect to admit their own mistakes. A lot of times people are simply damaged and they do not know how to conduct themselves in relationships

snowdrop 8/10 17:01 kissa they can be weakened but never erased

kissa 8/10 17:02 sweetbelle how will that happen? wait longer? just hide it away? will it ever come back?

snowdrop 8/10 17:02 That's a neurological fact supported by research, every now and then old experiences will pop up but they can be weakened with more adaptive beahviours

peeking duck 8/10 17:02 kissa someone being other than me? that is the importance of a truly safe space. and where communication of expectations in that space. be it you reserve an hour of your day, or a palce in your home, but when you are there, everything said is completely safe, from judgement. but i will also say that does not mean that it is not without consequences.

kissa 8/10 17:02 HellPrincess "do not know how to conduct themselves in relationships" is a big thing, right? So, how can you teach that?

sweetbelle 8/10 17:02 kissa in my case if its my little side it takes a longggg while for it to come back again. It literally just hides away until it feels safe

kissa 8/10 17:02 snowdrop really?

snowdrop 8/10 17:03 kissa yes

kissa 8/10 17:03 peeking duck, oh, i wanted everyone to answer, too!

longjohn696969 8/10 17:03 emotional iq

kissa 8/10 17:03 peeking duck are you talking about a relationship meta-talk?

kissa 8/10 17:04 sweetbelle how does it?

longjohn696969 8/10 17:04 think about autism spectrum

snowdrop 8/10 17:04 kissa one way is to look at a couple you admire and imitate them

HellPrincess 8/10 17:04 I think there also needs to be a sense of humility. You're no more precious than your counterpart. So remember that it isn't their job to make you happy, or to coddle you, or to always act in such a way that makes you comfortable. For example. If my guy goes out with his friends and doesn't call me even though I asked him to call, sure i might get upset, but that doesn't mean he did something wrong. Shit happens.

kissa 8/10 17:05 longjohn696969 hi, welcome! We're talking about trust in the BDSM lifestyle, but really, it's just kind of life, too

sweetbelle 8/10 17:05 kissa talking and being shown it's safe. That I mistakes or issues that happened were acknowledged and are worked on

longjohn696969 8/10 17:05 tyty

kissa 8/10 17:05 snowdrop as a couple or individually - only one of the party?

snar_Dust 8/10 17:05 Trust is a hard concept for me to grasp TBH... Like, I wear a different mask for everyone... I don't even know what I look like without one on...

snar_Dust 8/10 17:06 Pry mostly scared lol

snowdrop 8/10 17:06 kissa ultimately, you are only responsible for yourself, but it is helpful to see the to and fro

TheAusOne 8/10 17:06 snar_Dust think we all do that in some sense to protect ourselves

HellPrincess 8/10 17:06 Why am I bothered that he didn't call? What does this situation remind me of? And god. There needs to be a pamphlet an ongoing education for people on the basics of trying to build a relationship because tonnes end up here expecting the attention from another human to make them feel whole

longjohn696969 8/10 17:06 is awesome though when you put yourself out there and is reciprocated

HellPrincess 8/10 17:07 longjohn696969 yess

SweetSass 8/10 17:07 If I don't trust the Man I am submitting to, I will simply not be my best self as a submissive and He will never see my slave side. But if I am fully submitting to a Man, all masks are off. He tends to get the most raw version of me because trust = safey.

kissa 8/10 17:08 HellPrincess, i LOVE that statement. It's not always valid, as in the case of M/s, but in other relationships, this::::: "You're no more precious than your counterpart." needs to be spread to Doms, subs, and dumb wannabes.

snowdrop 8/10 17:08 Can anyone describe what it's like when you can reveal anything to your partner and know they won't reject it or hurt you with it?

longjohn696969 8/10 17:08 vulnerability and desire

longjohn696969 8/10 17:08 with desire - u expose ur weakness.

longjohn696969 8/10 17:09 and others can leverage

longjohn696969 8/10 17:09 so u are most vulnerable then

longjohn696969 8/10 17:09 takes courage and trust as u say

kissa 8/10 17:09 SweetSass but how do you get there? From no trust to absolute trust?

kissa 8/10 17:10 Do we need to trust all people with "Wallet, Wife, and Life"?

kissa 8/10 17:10 or *potentially?

HellPrincess 8/10 17:10 snowdrop I am a recovering addict. For a lot of people apparently, that means automatically assuming a myriad of character traits. It took me a lot of work to admit to that past. With my current partner especially because I didn't want to disappoint Him. Instead of judgement I found support, instead of bias I found compassion, and He celebrates with me every time I remember how long I have been clean.

SweetSass 8/10 17:10 kissa time. Communication. Getting to know the person. Initiative on their end. The time they're willing to put in. Chemistry and connection that follows.

snowdrop 8/10 17:11 HellPrincess that's beautiful

kissa 8/10 17:11 SweetSass what do you do to facilitate that as you're doing the same thing?

longjohn696969 8/10 17:11 time is a very important element agrees

snowdrop 8/10 17:12 kissa I would say no, trust involves two people and you can only trust as much as those two individuals can build together

longjohn696969 8/10 17:12 all things are revealed in time

HellPrincess 8/10 17:12 SweetSass yesssss. Time and effort

snar_Dust 8/10 17:12 I really want to trust, but I feel I need someone who is proven to be trustworthy first, at least to a degree, who won't coddle me when they know I've done wrong. But won't abandon me simply because I have done wrong... I don't have a good idea of how to really truly find that. But I'll wish for it... I know that wishing isn't doing though, just wish I knew what to really do...

HellPrincess 8/10 17:12 kissa sometimes I just need to trust that someone isn't gonna pull a knife and stab me when I turn around.

kissa 8/10 17:13 snowdrop can trust be held in a group or corporation or a multi-partner scene or sex?

longjohn696969 8/10 17:13 snar_Dust good point about accountability

kissa 8/10 17:14 snar_Dust that's a good point, how to find trustworthy people?

longjohn696969 8/10 17:14 is how u can measure ur worth in their eyes

SweetSass 8/10 17:14 kissa make space for them. Initiate as well so they aren't the only one. Effort on both ends is sexy.

snowdrop 8/10 17:14 Ooh good point kissa between an individual and a group, or organisation, or a scene or sex, there would still be an individual experience of trust for each person

HellPrincess 8/10 17:14 For me it's important that my counterpart treats me with respect and that includes addressing my mistakes when I make them, because how can I grow without that acknowledgment?

snar_Dust 8/10 17:14 HellPrincess ^

longjohn696969 8/10 17:15 ..and spanking;)

HellPrincess 8/10 17:15 longjohn696969 spankings are for fun. They do jack shit for discipline

longjohn696969 8/10 17:15 (that's the wine talking)

SweetSass 8/10 17:15 HellPrincess yes! This. Fully agree. Don't let my ish slide just because we are trying to build a dynamic. Ill have ten times more respect for Him if He doesn't let it slide vs if He did.

snowdrop 8/10 17:15 I think we also have to trust ourselves, to communicate our boundaries, acknowledge when trust is lost and not carry on and get hurt.

kissa 8/10 17:16 SweetSass that's something that i think a lot of submissives have in the back of their heads, it really does take both sides and it's not just one person getting a all of blowies or the other getting coddled more.

longjohn696969 8/10 17:16 in a world that is chaos-its boundaries that help us navigate

SweetSass 8/10 17:17 kissa yes!

kissa 8/10 17:17 snowdrop boundaries can be hard with the trust thing, on both sides. How can you maintain both?

HellPrincess 8/10 17:17 If you want to build trust with someone you first have to actively work on your own insecurities, deal with the remnants of your past. Please, do not deny yourself the chance to have a beautiful bond with someone who cares for you and who you find special simply because you have fears induced by your past experiences.

kissa 8/10 17:18 longjohn696969 how?

SweetSass 8/10 17:18 HellPrincess damn. I love that. So much.

kissa 8/10 17:18 HellPrincess HOW????

snowdrop 8/10 17:18 kissa for me, it's a lot of communication

longjohn696969 8/10 17:18 our own intuition only goes so far...

kissa 8/10 17:18 snowdrop oh yeah

longjohn696969 8/10 17:18 we have only the wisdom of self-experience..

snowdrop 8/10 17:19 kissa I actually did a pic of trust when I got burned in bdsm a while back

longjohn696969 8/10 17:19 but u can increase ur wisdom through relying on others to guide u

longjohn696969 8/10 17:20 u will know when u hit a limit

kissa 8/10 17:20 As humans involved with BDSM (and in the outside world) trust is also transactional - that is that the trust is at, perhaps less than the deepest, temporary, or because of an exchange. Do you have any examples?

kissa 8/10 17:20 snowdrop is it something we could see?

HellPrincess 8/10 17:20 kissa therapy. Introspection. And the very freeing realization that we have the power to create our own future. Step by step. Life is unpredictable in length and we gotta do what we can, so that when our time comes, we can say I WAS BRAVE and I pushed myself because I longed for more, and I worked hard and I found it. Trust is a gift we give ourselves.

kissa 8/10 17:22 HellPrincess *smiles* trusting yourself is tough, though.

snowdrop 8/10 17:22 kissa it is very basic I will see if I can find it, it was about submission and trust


kissa 8/10 17:22 I'm thing specifically about a scene or demo with someone that isn't your regular partner. A scene is negotiated with discussion and checklists and health checks. Within the construct created in that discussion, you'll have that scene. In that situation, you are trusting your partner to have the skill and knowledge not to put your eye out with a whip-cracker, drop you during suspension - or make you do the Funky Chicken while hypnotized.


kissa 8/10 17:22 snowdrop i would love to be allowed to see it, thank you

kissa 8/10 17:23 snowdrop wow. Pretty simple.

SweetSass 8/10 17:23 snowdrop beautiful.

snowdrop 8/10 17:23 Very simple, but I learn quickly thankfully

kissa 8/10 17:23 Is there anyone that would or would not agree with that? Is there anything to add in the version in your own head?

longjohn696969 8/10 17:24 start slow

kissa 8/10 17:24 longjohn696969 how slow?

longjohn696969 8/10 17:24 anticipation is sexy anyway

longjohn696969 8/10 17:24 think of it like a game of clue

snar_Dust 8/10 17:24 Trust has always been a big issue for me... I'm realizing that my family is likely abusive. I've questioned the basis of my reality in its entirety on and off for a decade at least... How does one go about leaving an abusive situation while disabled..? I have no idea. But I don't think I'll be able to trust myself until I am far away and no longer betraying myself by staying where I could never fit...

HedonisticDesires 8/10 17:25 kissa Or be honest and upfront if they don't have said skill. I know personally, if it weren't for a lot of patient and experienced bottoms in my life, I wouldn't have the skills that I do.

kissa 8/10 17:25 longjohn696969 how?

snar_Dust 8/10 17:25 Sorry for venting that

longjohn696969 8/10 17:26 as u said - set up, and participate but leave yourself space to observe them

longjohn696969 8/10 17:26 make notes

longjohn696969 8/10 17:26 mentally

SweetSass 8/10 17:27 snar_Dust When I realized that I had childhood trauma and it shaped a lot of how I was as an adult, in relationships, it was really hard to come to terms with. Trust, vulnerability, enjoying a Dominant when they were soft and gentle. All things I struggled with. But time, therapy and communication helped me SO much.

HellPrincess 8/10 17:27 Certain types of play involve varying degrees of trust. It's why I don't do casual play. Does it limit how much I engage? Yeah. But I'm ok not being involved. I have to be super comfortable

kissa 8/10 17:27 snar_Dust the first step is googling abuse of an adult child in your county, and following the steps to be able to talk to someone in the right department.

longjohn696969 8/10 17:28 kissa very good points

sweetbelle 8/10 17:28 HedonisticDesires I have learned the same but from experienced Doms. They have shown me how the inexperienced ones broke my spirit a bit and have had to show me how it is meant to be. I'm stronger though because of both kinds of experiences

snowdrop 8/10 17:28 I think something I need to work on is accepting others trust of someone blindly, I rely on a lot of knowledge of others think so and so is ok so they must be, but it might just be okay for them and not me.

kissa 8/10 17:28 It is the development of this trust that is the test of a true dominant. It is fragile, broken easily, and can rarely be mended seamlessly. However, it is a treasure beyond price, the key that opens fantasy to reality. The Loving Dominant - John Warren, Ph.D. - Masquerade Books, Inc. Chapter 5, page 67

snar_Dust 8/10 17:29 SweetSass I have a therapist and do my best to communicate. I just communicate without the aspect of trust though, I thrust my issues upon people desperately most of the time because I'm just a constantly exhausted emotionally and it's impossible to navigate without talking for me... So I just... Say way too much and hope for the best...

snar_Dust 8/10 17:29 kissa Okay, thank you

HedonisticDesires 8/10 17:29 sweetbelle Keep in mind that "how it's meant to be" is a relative and subjective phrase. There's not any one true correct way...though there are a whole lot of wrong ways and they invariably involve some form of coercion or lack of consent.

HellPrincess 8/10 17:29 snowdrop I have friends I watch. And I let them make their mistakes. It's after all, their own life and all I can do is be here to support them. I try to remind them.... don't rush.

kissa 8/10 17:30 In response to Warren, i would also that it is test for a submissive, too.

sweetbelle 8/10 17:30 HedonisticDesires well how it's meant to be for me and my situation. Sorry my typing and concentration is distracted by small humans and rl

snowdrop 8/10 17:30 HellPrincess *nods* I think I am similar

kissa 8/10 17:30 "Trust = a simple act of faith + confidence in the future." jade, CastleRealm

HedonisticDesires 8/10 17:30 HellPrincess I agree with you there, I do a lot of edge play, which isn't something I'm particularly keen on doing with someone I don't know very well.

HedonisticDesires 8/10 17:31 sweetbelle No worries. I'm glad you had that.

HellPrincess 8/10 17:32 HedonisticDesires then again, I'm also demisexual and I have no interest in engaging sexually where my feelings and my mind haven't already been stimulated, nurtured, etc.

Sero 8/10 17:32 HedonisticDesires that sort of thing is at the highest levels of trust, for me. Not only in my partner, but in myself. I'm very unwilling to jump into any kind of edge play unless I've studied/practiced, depending on the play.

SweetSass 8/10 17:32 I just learned about Demisexual. That and sapiosexual are very much a big part of who I am. Learning about that and researching was telling.

HedonisticDesires 8/10 17:32 HellPrincess I'm Sapiosexual, so I get that as well.

HellPrincess 8/10 17:33 Also anyone who ever says "Don't you trust me?" Is gaslighting. Your concerns are always valid and you never owe your trust to anyone

Sero 8/10 17:34 SweetSass always good to learn new things, huh?

snowdrop 8/10 17:34 I'm sorry I'm going to have to go find some cough mixture, thank you for the wonderful discussion E/everyone

HedonisticDesires 8/10 17:34 Sero I'm pretty well versed in what it is I do, quite a lot of it entails psychological and emotional edge play along with a veriety of physical ones. So yeah, if a bottom isn't comfortable discussing past traumas, it's too soon. I don't go there. It's not just at the highest levels of trust. It's at the highest levels of communication.

Sero 8/10 17:35 snowdrop thank you for joining us.

SweetSass 8/10 17:35 Sero Good to see You! And yes. The moment we stop learning new things then we should stop the lifestyle, because what's the point? Especially when it's ever evolving and shifting.

Sero 8/10 17:35 HedonisticDesires that's a great stance to have, and I share it.

HellPrincess 8/10 17:35 And anyone who can't trust you... that's on them. I've seen abusers tells their submissives that they just can't trust them to interact with tje opposite sex for example, when they're not around. If trust is tjst much of an issue between two parties.... know when to let it go

sweetbelle 8/10 17:35 I'm sneaking out as well... rl and all that jazz

Sero 8/10 17:35 SweetSass it's nice to be able to open yourself up to new things with trusted people, too.

HedonisticDesires 8/10 17:35 Sero Appreciate it.

SweetSass 8/10 17:36 Sero yes. I fully agree.

HedonisticDesires 8/10 17:37 HellPrincess It's certainly one thing to ask "what do you need from me in order to trust me" or "what is it that I have failed to do to earn your trust?" And quite another to attempt to guilt someone into trusting "you".

HellPrincess 8/10 17:38 HedonisticDesires yesssss^^^

HedonisticDesires 8/10 17:39 I've also found that trust is a living thing. It grows, it breathes, and it dies pretty quickly. The answer, 99% of the time to "what is needed" is time and consistency.

SweetSass 8/10 17:40 HedonisticDesires "it dies pretty quickly" yup.

SweetSass 8/10 17:41 For me, once its dead that person has very little chance of earning it back.

HellPrincess 8/10 17:41 HedonisticDesires we need to remember to ask ourselves.... am i making the effort my partner needs from me, so they can feel comfortable in our relationship? And do regular check ins, to voice any uncertainties that might arise.

HedonisticDesires 8/10 17:42 HellPrincess And more importantly, remember that we're not actually entitled to said trust.

HedonisticDesires 8/10 17:43 No matter how hard or for how long we have worked to build it. It will grow when it grows. It will build how it will build. Attempting to force it will only make it a longer process.

HellPrincess 8/10 17:43 I believe in forgiveness. In the fallibility of human nature but also, the possibility that growth and evolution are possible. Whether we deem that hard work worth it or not... depends on the history of the relationship

HellPrincess 8/10 17:45 HedonisticDesires none of us are ever entitled to anything. The moment I came to terms with my innate humility as another human being, the easier it became to communicate with prospective partners.

mountaintopman 8/10 17:47 Kerren hello there my friend

HedonisticDesires 8/10 17:47 HellPrincess Recognizing your fallibility?

HellPrincess 8/10 17:48 HedonisticDesires no. Recognizing I am entitled to neither attention, nor effort, nor trust, nor affection or special considerations by anyone.

SweetSass 8/10 17:48 Do you feel entitled to those things once in a dynamic where trust has been established?

HedonisticDesires 8/10 17:49 HellPrincess That's pretty true.

Ou812 8/10 17:50 HellPrincess agrees ... to receive those things from someone is a gift

HedonisticDesires 8/10 17:50 SweetSass No, not at all. Relationship dynamics take constant work and effort to maintain what has been built and to build upon the foundations established. The second that effort stops, the relationship falters...every time.

HellPrincess 8/10 17:50 I have zero expectations of my partner other than respect my boundaries. Everything else is a gift. Pretty breezy.

HedonisticDesires 8/10 17:51 Particularly when you're dealing in things like authority exchange and S&M.

SweetSass 8/10 17:51 Lovely.

HellPrincess 8/10 17:52 SweetSass no. I just cherish the fuck out of Him and He keeps doing it to me. And if I feel like I need something more, I ask. I say. I need more attention. Or I'm feeling sentimental and vulnerable, please give me special cuddles, time, etc

SweetSass 8/10 17:53 Which brings us back to communication being *so* key.

HedonisticDesires 8/10 17:53 Though, I don't see anything that comes with that effort as a gift. Personally, I see a gift as something that is given with no expectations in return. Anything granted within a relationship, whether authority, trust, security, devotion, the ability to play in the darker end of things, whatever the case isn't a gift. Those things come with a lot of expectations.

HedonisticDesires 8/10 17:54 Rightly so, but those expectations disqualify it as a gift, as I define the word.

Sero 8/10 17:54 HellPrincess that's beautiful

Bloodrose 8/10 17:55 Hello

HellPrincess 8/10 17:55 And even if I have given Him love for all this time, if He breaks up with me tomorrow, so be it. His joy matters to me. I don't expect anything other than tje honesty I work so hard to foster between us

HedonisticDesires 8/10 17:56 HellPrincess I agree with that.

Bloodrose 8/10 17:57 To me trust is earned not given freely


Maplever 8/10 18:00 I was reading all this but honestly if i need give a opinion on this it's hard to trust people nowdays i always try to find people that can make me happy but i don't know most of the time people seems idk not friendly at all oh btw hello to everyone

Bloodrose 8/10 18:02 I have always been told your gut instinct is the best tool you have if something doesn't feel right and your gut is telling you most the time it ain't right

SweetSass 8/10 18:03 Bloodrose my intuition is usually right.


Bloodrose 8/10 18:04 SweetSass absolutely

Bloodrose 8/10 18:04 Niamh yes of course

HedonisticDesires 8/10 18:06 Maplever I think it's important to remember that nobody can "make" you happy. They can provide opportunities for happiness, but ultimately, your happiness is your decision. You have to actively do and engage in situations that bring you happiness.

Bloodrose 8/10 18:07 You are the creator of your own world you decide what kind of world you want

Maplever 8/10 18:08 HedonisticDesires true but you know we need someone in our life but yeah i know i try always to be positive as much as i can because i never like feeling bad lol

Maplever 8/10 18:09 Honestly i am that type of person that loves make people happy and i love when between me and that person there's trust i always try my best of best to give a good impression to people and to care about them yea

Bloodrose 8/10 18:09 Ppl are put in your live for a reason you never meet someone by chance

Niamh 8/10 18:09 HedonisticDesires as we both know well, dearest, once you decide that you want happiness, and cut out the people who only cut you down and try to make you what they want you to be... then you can find joy with another person, as well as trust.

Sero 8/10 18:10 Bloodrose I agree

HedonisticDesires 8/10 18:11 Maplever Positive people are definitely a whole lot better to be around. That said, it can't be sunny, nor can it rain all the time. Balance is key. For me, the people I want around me the most are those who are just honest about who they are.

Niamh 8/10 18:11 It's just wrong to expect that because you are with someone, that they'll conform to what your wants for a partner are. Nobody should change "for you". A person should only change because they believe it's needed for themselves.

HellPrincess 8/10 18:11 kissa thank you once again for setting up the discussion

Maplever 8/10 18:12 I think honestly the best people arrives when you don't even expect them in that moment and that's good honestly because i love surprises lol

HedonisticDesires 8/10 18:12 Niamh Agreed.

Bloodrose 8/10 18:13 Niamh agreed

Niamh 8/10 18:13 HedonisticDesires this is why I'm with you, and her, and not anyone else now

Maplever 8/10 18:13 HedonisticDesires well i am a honest person too i never like be a fake person i think show to people your true face is a good thing that's why i want always be myself

HedonisticDesires 8/10 18:14 Maplever Good man

Maplever 8/10 18:14 Thank you!

Niamh 8/10 18:14 Bloodrose caused a lot of problems in my life, real and here, and I'm glad the lesson is finally sticking

Bloodrose 8/10 18:14 If you fall in love with a person why change them because the person they change into is not the person you fell in love with

Maplever 8/10 18:15 Bloodrose true it's better stay as that person is

Niamh 8/10 18:15 Also, how can you truly love someone if you don't even like them?

SweetSass 8/10 18:15 I'd like to challenge that with; growth is a good and healthy thing in a relationship. Bloodrose

SweetSass 8/10 18:15 Which inevitably changes a person.

SweetSass 8/10 18:15 Perhaps even leaving them better than you found them.

Bloodrose 8/10 18:16 SweetSass that's true to

Sero 8/10 18:16 SweetSass true, but there's a difference between natural growth and changing to fit.

SweetSass 8/10 18:16 Sero very fair.

Niamh 8/10 18:16 Sero my thoughts exactly.

Bloodrose 8/10 18:16 Yes

HedonisticDesires 8/10 18:16 Bloodrose Sadly, some people have the unhealthy mentality to attempt to manipulate their partners into conforming to their ideal; rather than accepting them for who and how they are. Loving someone is about realizing that many times their faults, the things that annoy you the most are generally part of the things that you love about them as well. You have to accept both.

Maplever 8/10 18:17 I am not gonna lie i love this chat i never expect to find this discussion in the main chat of a room lol

HedonisticDesires 8/10 18:17 And sometimes - accepting someone for who they are is admitting that you're simply not compatible.

Bloodrose 8/10 18:17 HedonisticDesires I agree I love my partners actions and their beautiful perfections

Niamh 8/10 18:18 Maplever this is the kind of conversation I personally need more than being asked constantly if I want to play... when I'm a sapiosexual and involved in a poly triad.

Maplever 8/10 18:20 Niamh true i honestly think i want talk about this stuff too about serious stuff but you know sometimes my mood tells me avoid that because generally this stuff is kinda heavy when you think too much on life issues/problems

Maplever 8/10 18:20 But i really enjoy talking about this stuff too because i always like sharing my opinion with anothers

SouthernStalion 8/10 18:31 Afternoon folks

babs37 8/10 18:45 looking around

kissa 8/10 18:45 babs37 hi, you're welcome to read back, we had a great chat about trust in BDSM